Episode 4
Kinfolklore: Stranger Things Sn.2 (Chapters 6-9)
Welcome back to Kinfolklore, where Andrea and Paul dive deep into the fantasy and sci-fi worlds we love. Few shows capture that blend of nostalgia, terror, and friendship quite like Stranger Things.
This episode, we’re rewinding all the way back to Hawkins, Indiana, Fall 1984. Where the tunnels run deep, Demo-dogs are on the move, and being a kid still means dealing with monsters — both human and otherwise. In preparation for the final season dropping this November, Andrea and Paul are rewatching every episode from the very beginning, continuing their coverage here with Season 2, Chapters 6-9
Transcript
I'm Paul.
Paul:And these final four chapters of season two turn up the stakes.
Paul:Will's visions get a little bit darker.
Paul:Elle's journey takes her far from home and unlikely friendships.
Paul:From the middle of all chaos.
Paul:Secrets break open, choices are made, and all the fate of Hawkins rests on.
Paul:The shoulders of 11.
Andrea:Poor 11. In today's episode, we are covering chapter six through nine. We'll talk about creeping possession, heroic sacrifices.
Just a reminder, we're just focusing on these episodes. However, we will pull in context from all four seasons of Stranger Things. So spoiler warning, this podcast is not spoiler free.
We'll be discussing all four seasons of Stranger Things. One small caveat is we will not be talking about Stranger Things.
The first shadow, which we'll do a separate mini episode on because not everyone has access to the play.
Paul:I don't retreat.
Paul:Ken Folklore will have adult content. March over to Jonathan's room, and there will be a makeout session. That's gonna happen. She's gonna do it.
So turn up at Billie Hol Holiday, let the vodka flow, and lie to your friend that you're doing espionage with about all that sexual tension. That's nothing like a little cloak and dagger to get the juices flowing. Let's go. We're back at Hawkins.
So the first episode we're gonna talk about is episode six and seven, the Spirit Spy. And also the Lost Sister. Two of my favorites in this season, by the way. These are two of my.
Andrea:The Lost Sister is really one of your favorites. Nobody likes that episode.
Paul:I, I don't know why.
Andrea:I, I, I like it a lot more on rewatch. On rewatch, I appreciated it. I remember the first time I saw that. I was like, what? What are we doing?
Paul:They don't like it because of what.
Paul:They thought they were promised, which I'm sure we'll get into.
Paul:But yeah, I, I mean, what they think was gonna happen. But I, I kind of dig it. I kind of dig like, I kind of dig like, I dig the whole thing.
Paul:It's pretty cool.
Paul:So Hopper's pulled out of the tunnels. Thank God. That was the close call. But it's clear the situation is spiraling.
Will's possession is deepening and deepens even further until the monster is using him now as a spy on his own family. Looking at his friends, figuring out where they're moving. Nancy and Jonathan Hand Their evidence over to Murray, who helps them spin it into a story.
Maybe like kind of give them something that piecemealing it so the public will believe it. Cause you know, if you give them the real deal, they'll start thinking oh.
Paul:That'S not true and hand wave it.
Paul:Meanwhile, Dustin and Steve attempt to wrangle dart. What? You know, let's just. We're gonna talk about this more. But what an unlike. What a great pairing. Dustin and Steve.
Andrea:This is like the best duo in this entire show.
Paul:It's great.
Paul:I love it.
Andrea:And that's saying a lot because I love Hopper and Joyce, but they are by far the best.
Paul:Dude, they're great.
Paul:I love it.
Paul:So outside Hawkins, Elle follows her own path to Chicago.
Paul:She's on the road where she meets.
Paul:Cali, another child from the lab. Cie urges her to embrace her rage and her violence.
Paul:Embrace her chaos. Where have you heard this before? This.
Andrea:Yennefer.
Paul:Yennefer, embrace your chaos. And Elle rejects a violent path, not.
Paul:Wanting to do some of the things that Callie was very ready to do.
Paul:And she returns home with a clearer sense of self and the power she.
Paul:Wants to claim on her own terms.
Andrea:The demodogs storm Hawkins lab. Who could have seen that?
Paul:You don't say.
Andrea:They're starving the lab, forcing a desperate escape. Bob becomes an unexpected hero, guiding the others out. But it costs him his own life. Bob. So it's so sad how he goes too.
With Will fully compromised, Joyce and Jonathan turn up the heat to burn the monster out of him. While Steve takes charge of the kids. His. His first moment is the babysitter.
Everything converges in the finale when Hopper clears a path for Elle so that she can confront the gate herself. Fueled by everything that she's learned. The love, the pain, and the choice, she seals the rift, cutting the upside down hold on Hawkins.
And the season closes with my favorite Stranger Things moments of all time. The snowball. Trying to reclaim a bit of their normal childhood. But the looming presence of the shadow monster Over Hawkins is still there.
Their story is far, far, far from over.
Paul:Like the under the sea dance. I love it. I love the snowball. It makes me think of like back to the future.
Andrea:There's a really iconic moment also from the Last of us, the second game. That's a similar like Christmas ball scene, like Christmas party scene. That's also iconic.
So re watching this, having seen that, I was just like, oh, this is like. I don't know that everything about the snowball really is. It's great.
Like the way that the way that Nancy comes in and dances with Dustin because she sees he's by himself.
And, like, we know that Dustin always had, like, a little tiny thing for Nancy from season one, and she gives him, like, a little bit more confidence. The way that Steve drives Dustin to the snowball is, like, one of my favorite things that. Like, that. That friendship wasn't just a crisis moment.
It's, like, a real friendship, 100%. The way that Lucas and Max finally admit they like each other. And the same with Ellen. Mike. I just.
Paul:No, it's a great.
Paul:It's a great moment.
Paul:It's one of the icon.
Paul:It's an iconic moment in the series, for sure. And it's. You know, we get those. Those moments that are really, like, wholesome.
Paul:And heartfelt and, like, nice.
Paul:In the midst of, like, all the chaos and the crazy and the terror, it's always nice to get those little, like, reprieves.
Paul:And one place we didn't get reprieve was losing a true legend. A true legend. Bob Newby.
Paul:Let's.
Paul:Let's pour one out for the best Radio Shack manager in Hawkins and potentially one of the best stepdads that a kid could ask for. Bob Newby.
Paul:This goes out to all our fallen homies.
Paul:Yo, Liquor.
Paul:Don't let the king get like that, y'. All.
Paul:And more unnamed lab employees. I. No idea who those guys are. They were just.
Andrea:Again, Dr. Owen's entire team just gets gone. Like, the entire team. He's the only survivor.
Paul:Yeah, it's. It's. It's crazy.
Paul:It's so crazy.
Paul:So, I mean, there's some noteworthy things that.
Paul:That happen in this episode.
Paul:What do you want to start?
Paul:What do you want to talk about first?
Andrea:I mean, I kind of like. I kind of like to unpack the. In. In going in, like, what's the most important to. What.
Paul:Yeah.
Andrea:Is less important. I. I think that takes us a little bit out of order.
But I do want to unpack the episode, Chapter seven, the episode with Kali and what happens there with Elle. Because on rewatch, I found that to be actually a really important episode that I. I'm a little confused about.
I've heard people say that they skip it.
Paul:Yeah.
Andrea:When they do their rewatch, and I'm like, you could do that. But you miss the part of Elle becoming, like, the L we know now.
Paul:Yeah.
Andrea:Like, you miss the part of Elle becoming season three and season four. L. The L that we meet before that episode, which I think is chapter seven, is still Brennan's tool.
Paul:Yeah.
Andrea:She's still not sure how to use her powers. She kind of uses them just in a way that other people want her to use them. And we see that in season one and season two.
Like, she either can't control them in season two when she's fighting with Hopper, or in season one, what we see is she uses her powers in the lab at Brennan's direction, and then she uses them again to help the group find Will. But that's kind of at Joyce and Hopper's direction, right? She's still being used almost as a tool.
This L that comes out of Chapter 7 has new agency that I don't think we've seen before and knows how to channel her powers, so they're not so uncontrollable anymore. And that's why I really like this episode. I was kind of like, oh, this is kind of like Elle's superhero origin story.
It's the moment that she realized that she can use her powers for something for. For her, for what she wants to do. Right. It would have been easy for her to do exactly what Kali wanted her to do, which is to get revenge.
But she decides in that moment that's not who I am. You know? Like, she's not necessarily judging Kali. I don't think in her, in her friends.
I think that she understands the vengeance that they feel is, is like true misfits and true outcast. Right? But she decides that that's not who she wants to be.
That, that instead of using her powers for her own vengeance, what she's gonna do is she's gonna use them to save her friends in Hawkins.
Paul:Yeah, I, I, that's one of the.
Paul:Things I really like about it. I also think that we get a another dimension, in my opinion, to she has this crossroads around found family and actual family, family of origin.
Because, like it or not, Kali is maybe not biological, but like her sister, like, and as a child, they are sisters, so. So she has, like, this. This thing where she has the option to go down this road that you're talking about.
And it makes me think about, you know, one of my favorite fantasy stories of all time.
And I think a lot of people who listen to us know this, like, you know, Game of Thrones where the Hound says, you know, a man has to have a code, right? And I think, like, why I say that is because, like, we get to start seeing Elle's code, that, like, she won't use her powers.
Like, we've seen her be, like, what they say. She's a killing machine. She's in a net. And she won't use her powers to harm children. She won't use her powers to just go on a crime. Crime spree.
And just. That's pointless with no end because she's, like, resentful and angry and bitter. And as you said, it shapes. It gives us more context into who.
Who she is.
Paul:But I also think it. And besides showing what she won't do, I guess I was struck by. I was struck by how far she.
Paul:Had come from the season where she.
Paul:Was saves, saves Mike and still is.
Paul:Saying, I'm the monster. I'm the monster. And now she's deciding inside of herself.
Even with the memory of Papa, like, manipulation of that of her mind from her sister, with Papa saying some of the things to her, I just found it really powerful that emotionally, in the depth of her, she's able to make a choice that shows, at least for now, that she is not the monster. Honestly, like, that she.
That many people would believe her to be and that she's even believed herself to be for so long that she's actually can make a choice that shows that I. I'm. I have good inside of me, you know?
Andrea:Yeah. And I think Kali is kind of showing us who Elle could have been if she didn't meet Mike.
Paul:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Andrea:I mean, I think if Elle's story. Let's just say Elle's story is different. She gets out of the lab, she heads to. To Chicago. She meets the same band of people. She reconnects with Kali.
I think we have a totally different person, a person who is full of rage. And not to say I'm not judging Kali, I actually really empathize with her, and I understand her. But I think we've.
We meet Elle at a pivotal moment when she meets people who show her real love and care and compassion for others and. And, yeah, they simulate family in a way that the kids in the lab never would have been allowed to.
She sees how much they'll fight for each other, and it's not conditional, you know, they're not fighting for each other because they know that, like, if I do this thing, then this other person will do something for me. They're fighting for each other out of.
Out of the pure love and friendship that they have for each other and out of the sense of community that they've built in this town. Hawkins. And so I. I really love this episode on second Watch.
Now, we have to acknowledge that at the time, this episode felt really jarring, and we all knew it was. Was a backdoor Pilot. Like, I think we all knew that the duffers were playing with what if we could expand the world of Stranger Things. And.
And even, like, the music, it was very jarring. It didn't feel like typical Stranger Things. It did very much feel like a backdoor pilot. I mean, what's the song play When Elle gets a makeover?
It's a Joan Jet song.
Paul:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What is the. The name of that?
There is another song in there that I do want to talk about, and it's not as well a known song, but, like, what Joan jets song was it?
Andrea:I'm trying to remember. I'm looking it up, because I don't remember, but it's. It's one that I really like, so I don't know why I'm blanking on it.
What song did you want to talk about? And I'll. In the meantime, I'll. I'll try to remember what this was.
Paul:Yeah.
Paul:She starts off with Bon Jovi Runaway. That's where she. Like, that's the. That's the. That's the. The song that she ends up with. But the song I believe when she's Leaving is called.
Is a song I didn't really know. So I looked up the song called Birds Fly and it's by.
And the lyrics really took me because the song kind of talks about what it is that she's going through. And I was like, wow. Because I heard some of the lyrics as she was right on the bus leaving Chicago.
And just some of the things I wanted to talk about was like, we are, we are, we are but your children Finding our way around indecision we are, we are rather helpless Take us forever A whisper to a scream Birds fly in the eye of the faithless daughter Broken at bitter end Wasted sacrifice for a new nirvana Nighttime sends us on our way and I was listening.
Paul:To, like, the emotion of the scene.
Paul:That was a moment of real decision from indecision.
Paul:And it's also referencing that painful loss that I don't think, because we don't.
Paul:Have all the context of the relationship.
Paul:That it felt like to, like, be going towards family and going to save her friends and going towards her new dad. I don't think that she thinks it's.
Paul:Going to be a good outcome just.
Paul:From the musical choice that it will.
Paul:Be a good outcome or a good end for that group of people that she just left behind based on where they were going, what they were heading. And I think there's a lot. There's a heaviness to that.
Paul:And I just, I just thought it was an interesting choice of music.
Paul:I think the Duffers have signaled to us many times that the music matters.
And I think, like, this signaling of, like, a faithless daughter broken at the bitter end, you know, these ideas of, like, where she was and where she's coming back from. Like, she was, you know, her and.
Paul:Hopper still are going to have to.
Paul:Have that conversation that they eventually have about how he's been treating her, how she left and ran away. And I think, like, some of this is just like a precursor and foreshadowing for that.
Andrea:I love all. I mean, I 100% agree. I also noted I didn't actually write it down, but I did also notice, note the lyrics of the song. As she was leaving Chicago.
The song that I was thinking of was, is actually Dead End justice, which is by the Runaways. So not, Not Joan Jett on her own, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Paul:Dead End Justice.
Andrea:She was in the Runaways. I love that song. Like, and you don't hear it a lot anymore in pop culture, but I totally agree with you.
As she's leaving Chicago, there's a real shift in mood of the episode, but also I think a real shift in Elle. And I think the music is the Duffers are once again using music to show, to give us one of their themes.
And a thing that this show sometimes gets criticism for is it does a lot of showing, not tell, telling, not showing. And so they often use Dustin or Mr. Clark or Murray to explain something. Right. That is is otherwise not really explained.
But I think the way they use music is really important and was there the whole time. We just maybe weren't as clocked into it until running up that hill. Yeah.
And so I, I, I thought, first of all, I think this is one of the best musical episodes in the whole series. There's some really great bangers from the 70s and 80s in it that kind of capture the feeling of teenage rebellion.
Paul:Yeah.
Andrea:And songs that, like I said, I hadn't heard in ages. I went through my, like, 80s music phase in the early aughts. So it's been a really long time. It's been a really long time.
I haven't listened to some of these songs in 20 years, but I had walked away with such different feelings this watch of Stranger Things. Maybe I need to see season four to appreciate this episode.
That said, it is jarring because the way it's sandwiched between six and eight, it breaks up the momentum that episode six sets up. It plops you into A whole other timeline, a whole other story with a whole other set of characters that's also running on an alternative timeline.
You know, I think that l. I think that Elle is with those kids a little bit longer than this, longer than the space between the action in episode six and episode eight. So it kind of plays of time a little bit, but it is jarring. It didn't quite fit into the season, but I like it overall as an episode.
Like, sometimes I wonder, had. Had they just let six go into eight and then drop this as, like a supplemental episode or something, maybe it would have worked better.
Paul:Do you think.
Paul:Do you think that we never see eight again? Do you think that, do you think that we ever. Do you think that, that actually she comes back into season five?
Andrea:I don't think we see her again. Yeah, like, if I'm being honest, I think you're right. And looking from it, from a meta point of view, I don't think we ever see it again.
See her again. I don't think we ever will reference those other kids in the lab again.
If I'm looking at it through a writing point of view, very easily, she could come back.
Paul:Yeah, I agree with that.
Andrea:But, but, you know, when you I.
Some of these episodes in season five are supposed to be super long, so there's not too much I can say about having to think about what, economizing your time when you're writing a story like this.
I've heard that some of these episodes are two hours long or an hour and a half long, so it's clear the Duffers weren't working with just like, oh, we have eight episodes, and we can't go beyond that. But they still have a lot of story to tell. And so I think going back to season two in this particular regard isn't helpful.
I think in a lot of ways, Kali played the role she was supposed to play for Elle in this main story, and we probably won't see her again.
Paul:And an alternative.
Paul:I, I agree with you.
Paul:I tend to agree with you that we probably won't. But an alternative telling where maybe it did happen.
Her ability could be one of the abilities that they need to actually defeat Vecna and the ability to be able to psychically change perception, make people see what you want, to control their mind, get into their head, understand what's going on, especially since a lot of this has dealt with, which we talked about our previous episode, memory, and this idea of how all of this is connected to memories.
Paul:And I, I, I tend to believe.
Paul:That if they do introduce a way to actually beat the Big Bad, it won't be through the Force and the powers that L has alone, but that there'll be some other kind of magical power. And that's where they could bring this back, where it wouldn't just be a random one off episode. So that.
That's kind of from a writing perspective, I think, like, that's where my brain would go, is that she finds her way back there after, like, fail, failing at this mission that she's been on to bring everybody to justice and. And realizing that the true justice is coming there. And maybe she sacrifices herself, maybe she comes and helps them. I have no idea.
But that's the only place I could see it actually playing out. She comes back to play some part in the fight.
Andrea:Yeah, I agree. But I think we were probably done with exploring, like, El's backstory with Vecna and the lab.
And so from a writing point of view, the time to introduce her back into the story would have been when El. In season four, when El is reunited with Brennan, maybe they could have written her into that.
Maybe Brennan found both Kali and El because he needs both of them. Vecna. But I think season five is, from the promos, is about Will, and Will's relationship to the Upside down and Vecna. So it's not impossible.
But I think what we're gonna see is El is gonna be back to superhero mode, fighting with all her might in season five. I don't think we have any more backstory for El to tell.
Paul:Yeah. And I mean, and there's a real.
Paul:Argument, if we're just talking about, from a story standpoint, to really talk about this Kali episode, there's a real argument that it's like. It's part of the hero's journey, you know, like.
Like, in the sense that if we're doing L's whole story arc that, you know, as, you know, and the hero's journey is. Is for those who don't know, most people do. You know, you find it in Star wars and most fantasy stories, but it's. It's literally like, you know, you.
The call to action, you set out on an adventure, you have supernatural aid. All these different things. Right. That Joseph Campbell kind of identified.
That happens in a lot of mythological stories in a book called the Hero With a Thousand Faces. But what I thought was interesting is, like, supernatural aid is exactly what Kali is because she empowers her and she grows.
Paul:But the thing that is also part.
Paul:Of that hero's journey is the return home and returning with the elixir.
Paul:So part of the hero's journey is.
Paul:To come home with, like, you return home from your journey with, like, the solve for a problem.
So maybe you could say that closing the gate in the portal is the solve for the problem, but is there other things that may be from this journey out from Hawkins, to see her mom, to meet Kali, to do all this?
Since we're closing down, as you said, we're probably moving away from her backstory and the fact that she gained during this time period that will play out in being the ultimate save for the team. Do you think there's anything that she gained from this from that standpoint?
Andrea:Hard to say, because she's not. We haven't seen the full story yet. Right.
I got to take it back to Game of Thrones, because it's kind of like discovering that Valyrian steel or dragonglass can kill the others. That ultimately is an important find, but it's not the main find. Right. It's not the thing. It's not the thing that is going to save everybody.
And so I think I'm up to believe that Will and El are both going to be important in the end game, and everybody will play a role. Right. Because that's what we've seen in season three especially.
I know we're talking about season two, but in season three especially, we see how important everybody's role is and how they all come together. And I think we'll see more of that in season five, but I think our heavyweights are obviously going to be Ellen, Will, and. I don't know, you know?
Yeah, we don't know how that's gonna. Right. And we. And I wonder if Elle is a red herring for the big bad. Right?
Like, maybe Elle uses all of the power she has in her body, channels all the emotions like Cali taught her, and it's still not good enough, right, to. To destroy Vecna, and then Will has to come in with a save.
So this actually could be Will's hero's journey, and Elle could be a more minor character in that. We just don't know yet.
Paul:I agree.
Andrea:But, yeah, I think. I think this episode was more important than we gave it credit for at the time.
Paul:Normally it is.
Andrea:And, yeah, I do think that we learned so much about how El's powers work until they stop working. But we learned that, like, Elle can't just make things happen. Right.
She needs to channel her emotions, especially the ones that kind of, like, burn heavy in her, like, anger, frustration, Love, you know, wanting to protect people. She has to do all of that. And we see her do that when she closes the gate. We see her do it again in season three to her own detriment.
So I think it's possible that this is all that she gets from this episode. But it's. It's also possible that there's more to. There's more to see, for sure. And what if.
What if a way of bringing back Kali is actually not bringing back Kali at all?
Paul:Yeah.
Andrea:But having Kali's teachings influence Will.
Paul:Yeah.
Paul:No, that's fair. I like that.
Paul:I could see that easily as well.
Paul:So, speaking of Will, he has quite the season.
Paul:This is the back half of this is tough on him and Joyce.
Paul:So, I mean, you know, let's. Let's be honest.
Paul:Joyce has become pretty protective of him throughout the beginning parts of the season. She's his fiercest protector, and she wants to. She wants to take care of him.
Paul:But she's also, like. She's also, like.
Paul:She hits a point where she's like.
Paul:Okay, I'm going to get this thing.
Paul:Out of my child.
Paul:And she's pretty relentless in how she pursues it. I mean, to be like, hey, let's turn the heat up. Jonathan can't even take it. Jonathan is like.
Like, he's fighting her to, like, stop from doing it, but it's.
Paul:It's.
Andrea:He's torturing him.
Paul:Yeah.
Paul:Yeah.
Paul:But I think she starts to separate torturing Will from torturing the Mind Flayer and. Or the Shadow Monster, and in a way that I don't think that a lot of other people could. Like, she was like, she. She's.
She's able to, like, look the pain.
Paul:In the eye and still go through with it. What do you think? What do you think she finds that resilience?
Andrea:I think Joyce finds most of her resilience. Well, first of all, I think Joyce is a person who doesn't give up. Yeah, she's not. She just doesn't give up.
But I think she finds most of that resilience in having fought for Will before in the past and won.
Paul:Yeah.
Paul:Yeah.
Andrea:She's gonna. She's gonna keep doing it until she fails. And we see that Joyce doesn't really give up on people.
Paul:I agree.
Paul:No, I totally agree. And I think that she realizes. I think the.
She realizes that the short term kind of, like, risk of his pain is worth the possibility of, like, him being lost forever. It's like, that's the one shot she's got. She's Got one shot right at it. And that. That being it, she's going to go for it.
Andrea:And the timing has to be right. It's got to be. They gotta drive out this monster. And it's gotta be with enough time where the gate is still closed. So it hasn't like she. It's gotta.
It's gotta be now. And I think that she. Joyce, impressed me more with every watch of the show because she. She doesn't give up. She's a fighter to the very end.
And I don't think she would give up on either of her kids. Yes, I do think she neglects Jonathan. I just think that's a fact of. But I don't think I think of Jonathan.
I think Jonathan's a kid who's always been okay. And so she's focused on Will because I think she understands that Will struggles more.
her son is queer and it's the:And so I think she is very protective of Will because she's worried about him more so than Jonathan. But that said, I think if Jonathan was in peril like this, she would absolutely fight for him too.
Paul:Yeah, I agree. I totally agree. And I.
Paul:And I think, like, with this.
Paul:This is a deep.
I don't know, I found, you know, people sometimes, especially in movies, when we show love, it's all of the, like, you know, squishy stuff, the happiness, the. It's like fight for the love, fight for. This is normally romantic love. Sometimes it's bonds of great friendship.
But I think the thing that this captures, that we don't often see when you're talking about the love that a parent has for their child or that the love that a person has for somebody is. That love sometimes is doing the hard thing, and it's doing the thing that sometimes you don't want to say to somebody. Something. You say, hey, this.
I could easily, like, let that just go and not say it. You don't have to say it brutally. Like, you don't have to burn somebody.
Paul:Out of a room like Joyce did, but you could easily go and be.
Paul:Like, hey, I'm just not gonna say that or do that.
Paul:But it's like, you know, what people.
Paul:Sometimes characterize as tough love.
Paul:But it really isn't about being tough more than it's about her saying, you know what? This is me being honest. And it's the Honesty in what she.
Paul:Does and authenticity of reaching for this one chance she has that I'm really moved by in this. This back half of the season.
Paul:So another kind of love, though, is this.
Paul:Two crazy kids, Nancy and Jonathan, they don't even know they're in love.
Andrea:They have, like, a iconic run in these episodes because they paired up in season one. Right. But here we are not just pairing up, realizing there's something a little bit more going on here. And I love this for them.
I don't love them as a couple. I don't like Nancy, particularly with Jonathan or with Steve, to be honest.
But I love their friendship, the friendship that underpins their romantic relationship. Love that. Love that for them. They. They show so much care for each other and so much belief in each other that I really enjoy it.
So when Murray was like, come on.
Paul:Kids, what are you talking about here? What's going on? Yo. Very. Murray was like, sure, I have a couch. Murray was. Murray was, like, the best in this. This was great. It's a great.
Andrea:So good. Especially because he did the same thing to Joyce and Hopper. And Joyce and Hopper had the same. Like, what are you talking about?
Paul:He's the just have sex.
Andrea:We're not together.
Paul:He is definitely so good. He's definitely the just have sex already guy. He's definitely that guy. But he doesn't do it. Come on, let's go. Let's do this.
Andrea:Why are we doing this?
Paul:Why are we doing this? Like, but that, you know.
Andrea:Well, maybe we're doing it because Nancy's technically still with Steve.
Paul:Is she, though?
Andrea:She's not. I mean, she is.
Paul:Yeah.
Andrea:I think as far as, like, officially breaking up, I think her and Steve's breakup is a very teenage breakup. And it's.
Paul:You.
Andrea:It's clear that Steve did not take it as seriously.
Paul:No.
Andrea:You know, he made a big fuss about it, and then he. He kind of retreated. And I really. Can I just say, I really. I don't think we talked about this in last.
I really hate Steve's reaction to all the stuff Nancy's going through. Steve. Steve is, like, consistently emotionally immature and then, like, reflects and realizes that he messed up.
But I love Nancy and Jonathan's run in these episodes. These. They're just like.
Paul:Yeah.
Andrea:They're really out here thinking that they're like Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys. Like, they're gonna get to the bottom of this.
Paul:Oh, man.
Paul:That Nancy Drew. Nancy Drew. That's gonna be tough. That's gonna be a tough look at.
Andrea:Season three that I Said what I said Nancy. Nancy really is out here acting like she's on Scooby Doo. Like, you can't solve every. And they never asked for help. Like, they never tell the adults.
No, they never tell the adults and they never tell the kids. So y' all just out here by yourself doing dangerous stuff.
And then of course, it's gonna all come to a head because everyone else is affected by everything. These two. But I love. I love this.
Paul:This is the critique of the whole.
Paul:Show, what you just said. This.
Paul:This sums up, like, our critique. When we are offline talking about this show, we often bring this up.
Paul:Where.
Paul:Where are all the adults to these picnic? Like, this is crazy. Like, they're around. They. They kind of caught that.
They put it in here and there, but I just feel like a lot of them are asleep at the wheel. Even Hopper. Like, I'm gonna go down into this tunnel and just leave my child locked inside the house.
This is days that he's, like, leaving messages and never going back. Like, what the hell is happening?
Andrea:Crazy how he treats Elle like a grown woman. He's like, don't go outside. It's dangerous. But also be alone for several days on your own.
Paul:Craziness. Crazy.
Paul:Crazy.
Andrea:I know that l. I know that. L was in the woods for a while by her own, so I. I know that he knows that she's a survivor. But it doesn't matter. Like, she's still a kid.
She still needs. She needs companionship. She needs somebody to be there. You should still be tucking her in at night like she's a kid.
Paul:Yeah. I just. I don't know. But you know what I really love?
Paul:I think the next thing I kind of, like, really love is as we talked a little bit about it, the Dustin and Steve relationship and be still my heart. I just.
Paul:I really love that. Like, okay, so Steve is obviously having a rough run.
Paul:He's like, you said, he's not being very responsive to. To Nancy and what she's going through. He's kind of like, you know, doing the Steve things, getting in his own way.
Paul:And Dustin shows up and Dustin shows up to, like, kind of rescue him a little bit. I think he rescued.
Even though Dustin needs help when he shows up because nobody else is responding to him, he still is kind of like, he sees something in Steve. And I think Dustin's belief in Steve actually. Actually is good for Steve because Steve doesn't believe in Steve the way Dustin believes in Steve.
Andrea:The way that Dustin and Steve link up is so funny. Yeah. So Dustin has just read Mr. Wheeler for film.
Paul:Yeah, yeah.
Andrea:For no reason. No reason. Mr. Wheeler must be like, what the hell is wrong with these kids?
Like, Ted Wheeler is just minding his own business, and Dustin is like, you're useless. You have no information. Then Steve is like, I'm gonna come in with these flowers and win back my girl.
And Nancy is obviously not there because she's off with Jonathan. And Dustin is like, you're good enough. Like, I. I need some help. I need help. You're good enough. And then they start this iconic duo that is so good.
And, like, one of the things I really like about their relationship is even though Dustin is significantly younger than Steve, Steve doesn't care that he's still, like, his older brother. That is his. That's his friend. He doesn't care, like, that He. He doesn't mind that he's a much younger kid.
He saw an opportunity to mentor someone, and he took it.
Paul:Yeah. Yeah.
Andrea:And he also does not let these kids do stupid stuff on their own, which they desperately needed. Like, they needed an adult in the room to be like, stop.
Paul:Yeah. What are you guys doing? Like, yeah, crazy.
Paul:I, I. And I. And I mean, and when he. When he. When they go on this mission to, like, lure out the Demogorgons, what a crazy, crazy.
What the hell were they thinking? Like, thank God. Thank God. Things, like, went where they had to go back to the lab because, like, man, Steve was toast. It was about to be a rap.
Paul:For all of them.
Andrea:I mean, Steve. Steve being willing to help them with the Demodogs and Dart A plus. But the way that plan went sideways so quickly.
That plan went real sideways real fast. Steve. Yeah. Like you said, was almost a goner. I love. I love Max, though.
Paul:Oh, my gosh.
Andrea:It's like a really solid run of action in this season.
Even though I don't always think this season has, like, the most intricate plot, you know, I think there's a lot of, like, still relationship building and dynamic building in this season. The action in the last few episodes is just so phenomenal. Like, you, like, I couldn't stop watching it.
Paul:Yeah. I mean, it's fascinating because, like, when.
Paul:I watched this season, the first two times I watched this season, like, the first time the Void stuff with Elle, like, moved me to, like, tears. Like, I was like, I don't know.
Paul:I don't know what it was.
Paul:It was like.
Paul:And then the second time, I still get choked up with the back half of the season.
Paul:You know, I've watched it three times.
Paul:Now, but it's still. It's just something about.
Paul:I think it is the relationship building.
Paul:It's like.
Paul:It's almost like a good.
Paul:Like that.
Paul:And I was.
Paul:I was assessing this. I was like, why. Why am I so moved by this season? Even though I don't think it's the.
Paul:Best season of the show, Like, I don't. I think it's a good season, but not the best season of the show.
Paul:And I think that's what it comes down to.
Paul:It's that you find out about what matters to people. You find out about. There's like, real, like genuine bonds being formed. And with the season previous, there was like the nostalgia piece.
This had more than just nostalgia. It started.
It started towards not only character development, but character development in reference to the other characters and who we're going to be on this journey with and the complications of that for the duration.
I mean, I'm sure there's new characters come in and out, but these core characters that we care about, I think that's, for me, it's a real foundational season, even though it wasn't the best.
Andrea:Oh, I totally agree. I think this season is also really important to pair off Mike and Will because that's one of our iconic duos. Right.
They're not always placed together in every action sequence. But the way that Mike never leaves Will's side in this season is insane. It's just incredibly beautiful. He just. He won't leave him in the hospital. He.
He unders. He fully understands the danger of his friend being possessed. And he. He's like, I'm. I'm gonna stay here with you.
So I think that that's a really important duo as well. We get a lot of good duos here. We get Nancy and Jonathan kind of solid duo, where those two just like, stay together for the rest of the series.
Like, I would be shocked to see in season five, I know things are not good with them at the end of season four, but I would shock to see in season five if it's remixed too much. What I think we'll probably see in season five is Robin and Steve, Joy and Nancy and Jonathan.
And all four of the older kids will work together with more coordination because now we've seen Nancy and Robin link up, and so I think that we will.
Paul:A lot of brain power.
Andrea:Probably see Nancy and Robin.
Paul:Oh, yeah, That's a lot like they, they, they. They're solving things. They're both very good at, like taking and putting together a puzzle or riddle.
Paul:I mean, Robin's decoding next season.
Paul:She's decoding. Freaking Russian. Right.
Paul:Like, so it's like, I'm like, wow, those two together. Yeah.
Paul:I'm looking forward to where that goes.
Andrea:Yeah.
No, there I think we see the four older kids really work together, which makes me a little tiny sad that we maybe not won't get as much Dustin and Steve. But we'll see.
Paul:Yeah, we'll see.
Paul:I mean, we'll see.
Andrea:Dustin and Steve are absolutely iconic in season three together.
Paul:Yeah.
Andrea:Season four is a little bit more of a mixed bag because we have Eddie Munson joins.
Paul:Yeah.
Andrea:The fray again. Another. I mean, I can't wait to talk about season three with you because, I mean, season four with you because I. Eddie is like.
Paul:He's great.
Andrea:One of my favorite Stranger Things character of all time. And I think that's, like, I'm not alone in that. I think that's. I think that's a pretty common take. But I. I just think that this.
There's not that much, like, new magic introduced in this part of this, the season. We learned a lot of the things that we needed to know in episode five. Right.
So there's not that much new magic, but there's so much depth to the relationships that gets built here. And we also lose one of the most iconic characters, which is Bob Newby.
Paul:Yeah.
Andrea:In this stretch. And it's really, really tough.
Paul:Tragic. Tragic hero. One of my favorite scenes is when Hopper's out here trying to be the hero again.
Eddie, just like, he's, like, talking to him about basic and writing something in basic. And Hopper's like, so tell me, teach me.
Paul:And he's like, yeah, sure, Let me teach you a whole fucking computer language. Like, right now, it's out of a closet. Okay, awesome. How about.
Andrea:He's like, is that. Is that hard? Bob is. Bob has, like, IT guy crash out. It's so good. I love it.
Paul:Oh, it's so good. Oh, my God. So I. Yeah, I think Bob, you know, sucks. It sucks to lose him because it looked as if he was going to get away for like a split second.
And then, like, you lose him right there. And the way that it happens for.
Paul:Joyce, it sucks, you know, and trying.
Paul:To rescue, like, her son, she loses.
Paul:Her love, you know, she loses her.
Paul:Her partner. So that is.
Paul:That's a. You know, that's a.
Paul:It's a really rough thing. And also it draws a lot of parallels from his own childhood nightmare. About the clown, like, right, like this.
Paul:Like, kind of like standing up, you know, being brave.
Paul:He's doing that in that moment.
Paul:You know what I mean?
Paul:And while. While he should. While it's. It is brave. It may not have been the right.
Paul:He. It was misplaced a little bit because he doesn't know the full breadth of the danger. Like, he knows it's dangerous, but, like.
Paul:He'S not up to speed like the.
Paul:Rest of them are.
Andrea:You know, he almost made it. He. If he hadn't paused, they probably would have made it.
Paul:Agree. Why did they pause?
Andrea:Because Sean Astin only agreed to do one season. I really. Honest here. Here's the thing about Bob and I. I've thought about this a lot. Do.
If Sean Aston says he can do 10 seasons of this show, do they. Do they make him into Bob Newby, Joyce's boyfriend? I don't think so, because I think the Hopper and Joyce relationship is what we're.
We've been careening towards this whole time. I think if Sean Astin says, I'm.
I can't wait to join the cast of Stranger Things, the Duffers say, okay, now you're the new principal of Hawkins or something like that. Like, they make up a totally different roll for him. The reason he stopped was because Sean Astin was like, I'm only gonna do this one season.
Paul:All right, let me. Let me get meta for a little while.
Paul:Let me just get meta for a second.
Paul:Do you think that they did this.
Paul:Because Samwise Ganji survives?
Andrea:I don't think so. I think it was more of a.
Paul:We have one season, 100%. I mean, like, it's such a good callback, though. Think about it. I mean, this guy's in Goonies, you know what I mean? Like, he's in all of. He's in.
He's in Goonies, which is, like, one of the things that I think that they kind of reference a few times.
Paul:In this show, just in the friendships.
Paul:And how they go on these missions. So it's like. It's such a.
Andrea:And the Duffers said they were, like, huge fans. Huge, huge fans. Like, they were so excited to have him on the show.
Paul:Yeah.
Paul:So, I mean, it's great.
Paul:It's freaking great. I just.
Paul:I just. I had to.
Paul:I had to ask.
Paul:It was just for me, I'm like, did they.
Paul:Did they.
Paul:No. You probably read.
Paul:It's probably contracts.
Paul:So, I mean, the themes of this is pretty. Pretty clear. It's tested friendships, huge sacrifices. I think, you know, sacrifice is a.
Paul:Big, big theme of. Of this season, of this run, of the back half of this season, you.
Paul:Know, you got to think about, like.
Paul:The different types of sacrifice. So you have, like, Bob, who gives his life Joyce, who really risked her.
Paul:Sanity and Will's life by torturing Will. You know, Elle risked her existence and sacrifices to some level, Elle could have hid by going with this group of.
Paul:People in that episode that we've been talking about with Kali and her friend.
Paul:She could have hid and nobody would have found her Again, Hopper wouldn't have found her.
Paul:She would have just been on the run, and she would have been like, oh, the girl with superpowers that disappeared, right?
Andrea:And she would have had that. She would have had that person that she's with who understands what she went through.
Paul:Right?
Paul:She sacrifices that for being able to come back, but she also sacrifices her life to her existence some way.
Paul:But she doesn't know whether closing the gate is gonna actually. What that's gonna mean as far as what it is.
Paul:And, you know, Hop, he risked exposure and sacrifices, exposure with Elle. And obviously.
Paul:Nancy and Jonathan risk it all. They risk it all.
Paul:They risk it all for love. You know what I mean? They risk it all for love and for the possibility of getting Barb's story out there. So I. I don't know.
I think there's a lot of sacrifice.
Paul:I think.
Paul:I think it's a big, big one. I think my takeaway on that is.
Paul:That survival does require sacrifice, that in order to persevere, sometimes you must sacrifice things that you hold dear. It also brings. It brings growth.
Paul:And I think the loss of Bob.
Paul:Like, you can see that it strengthened Joyce's resolve to, like, beat this thing. Like, she was not. He was. She was not going to let him make this sacrifice in vain.
Paul:And so I think it's very clear in Elle also who redefines her whole.
Paul:Identity through the sacrifices, as we've spoken about throughout the episode.
Paul:So it's both a wound and a.
Paul:Way to forge resilience and a forge in general. So I think. I think, like, that's the power of sacrifice in the story and in this season, and. And that's a big, big theme and a takeaway for me.
How about you?
Andrea:Yeah, I. I totally agree. I think. I sometimes wonder if.
If the gang knows that, how much Elle has really given up, because I don't think Elle is always open about her experiences, but she. She sacrifices a lot. I mean, she's almost died multiple times in this struggle.
And so I wonder how much they are aware of how she experiences all of this. I don't see a lot of people spending a Lot of time checking on Elle's emotional state.
So I. Sacrifice is definitely something that happened a lot in the season, will continue to happen. I mean, next up, Billy. Right. There's gonna be another sacrifice for me.
This was a season about, like, the test of friendships and how they form and reform and how they. Especially as you're growing up, friendships don't stay static. You. You've got new people joining the party. Right. You got first L and then Max. This.
This group of friends had been together since they were little kids. Like, really think about that. Since they were about Erica's age in season one, this has been the friend group.
They went through all of elementary school together. And now here comes L in season one, and then here comes Max in season two, and things get rough. Right.
Dustin and Lucas and Mike all are kind of struggling with this new dynamic in the group. You have Nancy and Steve and their constant coming together and falling apart. Coming together and falling apart. Maybe. Maybe cre.
Maybe understanding each other differently. Right. I think Steve still loves Nancy. I don't think that goes anywhere. Right. But I think Nancy needed to learn how to respect Steve differently.
And I think for the second time, Steve is proving to Nancy that he's a real one. And so I. I think I already mentioned Jonathan and Nancy and how I love the foundation of their relationship, which is friendship.
And what I think is probably pretty unconditional love. Like, those two will probably break up, but I think they will still care about each other and still want each other's best interests.
So I think so much of this is this season was about friendships falling apart and coming back together again with new understanding and sometimes with new people. One of the things that I always think about in growing up is that when you.
When you have, like, little tiffs with your friends, especially in middle school, like, you have a little tiff, and you don't talk for, like, a week.
Sometimes that other friend will sit at a new table at lunch, or we'll go hang out with someone else, and then they will bring a new person into the group.
So a lot of my friends in middle school and high school were people that I never spoke to on my own, that my other friends, like, maybe they needed a break from us. Right. They were like, the click is annoying me. And then they would bring this new person into the group of them. And that's what we're seeing here.
This constant, like, bringing new people. So now Robin is in the group in season three. Right. Murray becomes part of the group, really, in season two, even though He's.
We learn about him in season one. We, we have Max. Elle comes weaves in and out. We talked about that last week.
Sort of how El and Will are these two people who are never quite settled in, in the group, but they are part of the larger community. And so friendships being tested, but then reforming and getting richer and more dynamic. That's one of the things that I took away from season two.
Paul:I love it.
Paul:I feel the same way. And speaking of Murray, he's a, he's.
Paul:A sharp guy, cynical voice. He's. He's. I like him. He, I, I, you know, like, please wrap him in bubble wrap. I don't know if he makes it through season five, but I would be.
Andrea:Absolutely devastated if something happened to Murray.
Paul:Me too.
Paul:I like him. I like him. He is. He is. He may frequent the QAnon boards, but he's still.
Andrea:Oh, that reminds me. I didn't make my tinfoil hat.
Paul:We gotta make a tinfoil hat. We need a tinfoil hat. Yeah, so.
Andrea:Well, I think I might make a tinfoil bonnet now that I've seen one. I don't know if you guys have seen this, but there's a guy who is on basically all the social medias.
I've seen him on Tick Tock, Instagram and threads. Every week he's been releasing a new set of tinfoil. And I think week two was bonnets and do rags. So I was like, oh, I never thought about it.
Paul:Took me out. I was like, yes, let's go. I have the tinfoil. Bought it. It's great. But yeah, no, I, I love it. I love, I love Murray for his tip.
Andrea:We didn't have many, like, we didn't have too much conspiracy theory and speculation in this, this season. I will be back with more of that season three. Season three. There's a lot of kids.
Paul:Yes, there will be a lot. Of course, of course we're getting the Russians. We're getting everything going on.
Paul:So I'm into it.
Paul:I love it. Oh, man. So, yeah, as we close out season two of Stranger Things, stick with us. We're.
We're going all the way through the series leading up to season five much in anticipated finale season.
Paul:We just appreciate you listening so much.
Paul:Please get in touch with us@kinfolkloregmail.com kinfolklore pod on our socials, on Instagram and TikTok and yeah, we will see you next time.
Andrea:Bye, everyone. Sam.
